Finally some news. Appears they will be begin releasing these in April or May (probably August then). I found the news, and a debate, at Frothers. I made a post some of my opinions on the historical accuracy and general design as a response to a member at Frothers. I repost it here, boosted with some pictures.
|Stephen May wrote:
|There are so many innacuracies with these, but people dont care because they look like the pictures people are used to.
BotherQuest wrote: Just out of interest, those inaccuries would be what?
Stephen May wrote: Some very odd helmet shapes for a start. The Spartans have mustaches for a start, which they were forbidden to grow.
Spear grip and butt spike are made up. Again, very odd sword shapes.
Those spears are going to be very brittle in the plastic Victrix use.
Tunics are too long. It was considered very effeminate to have any clothing reaching to the knee.
Shields should be resting on the shoulder to support the wieght. Would be interested to see the inside details.
The cuirass seems an odd design, it looks like it has a wide belt?
Pointless doing 3 boxes. Thebans would look exactly the same as the rest of Greece (except Sparta). The “Boeotian” helmet (note, no one actually knows which helmet style this was) was not the only style worn by this city, and it was mainly a cavalry helmet (depictions actually show it was more common in Athens than Boeotia).
Just seems Victrix are doing the same now Warlord have re-released mine as they did to me when I anounced mine.
Ok, this reply is a bit of an essay, sorry ’bout that.
I agree with some of your points but in comparison to the alternative I believe parts of them are kind of harsh as there will always be aspects of arms and armour that people can’t agree on. Unless off course they are utter crap, or derivative.. ahem..Wargame Factory..ahem The overall execution of the minis needs to be weighed in too.
For instance: I agree that the Spartans have weird helmet shapes. The Athenians have some helmets that appear to be more 4th century than 5th century, but otherwise they look ok. The Thebans could be used if anyone wants some troops with those helmets, but they shouldn’t really be sold as Thebans.
I do like that the back and top of some helmets in the Athenian offering are fuller than your Immortal designs. Sure, you managed to get more proportionate faces and better fronts of the helmets — but Victrix have succeeded in shaping the backs and tops of the helmets.
I think there are points to be made both for and against moustached Spartans, and I prefer the look of beard and moustache — but in total the Immortal Spartan heads are better than these.
Well, the butt spikes look like crap on a turd but they have the general features of butt spikes so I wouldn’t call them made up. I don’t understand why they had to make spear grips.. I don’t mind a few spears with grips but it looks like everyone has got them. Swords shapes are not great but they give the general impression of Greek swords from a distance so its not a biggie.
Tunics — this is an area where Immortal wins hands down. Victrix tunics are far from deal breakers though.
When it comes to the shields: It looks like some of the guys do rest the shields on the shoulders. But — I don’t think that most of them should though. I agree that it would be wise to rest the shields on shoulders from time to time — but when fighting I can definitely see the argument that they wouldn’t leave the shields statically resting against the shoulders. On the other hand Victrix shields have two distinct benefits over Immortal’s.
1) None of the Victrix shields have that incredibly wide rim that about a third of the Immortal shields have. I know that aspides (Greek shields) were wide but when adding those wide rims they look wrong. I’ve had to file down some of my Immortal shields.
2) As far as I understand the Immortal shield drapes are hung wrongly from the shield. I’ve never seen a depiction of shield drapings that are hung that way (but maybe some of your 2000 vases show them). The Victrix shield drapes hang pretty much correctly as far as I understand.
Although Victrix shields are a bit small they are definitely on par with Immortals, perhaps even better.
Yes, the cuirasses have that weird detail around the waist but I’ve seen at least one depiction of what seems to be a separate belt around a hoplite. And the pteruges of the tube and yoke corselets look better than the Immortal offering — the latter’s are too spread out.
And I definitely agree that the separate boxes are pointless. They should have done one box with earlier and one with later hoplites or something.
Let me add a point of my own: The shin guards look much slimmer and truer to the look of hoplites than the fat Immortal shin guards. Those fat lower legs indicate a problem with the proportions of the Immortal hoplites: Fat wrists and lower legs compared to small top and back of the helmets.
In total: Yes there are definitely some inaccuracies with these, but there are also some inaccuracies with Immortal hoplites. Some of Victrix problems are severe but to me it doesn’t matter that much since those details are hard to see from a distance anyway. Oversize rims and weird shield drapings are at least as noticeable. And yes, the faces are too big (and some beards and “wigs” look like shite), but in comparison its a matter of taste whether you’d accept those problems better than you accepts Immortal’s issues.
I have gladly supported Immortal and will definitely buy some of these as well to see how they look in person.
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